Your Attorney does not appear to have drawn a conclusion, but rather asked a valid question, the answer to which I guarantee is painfully inconvenient for the creators of this rigorously scientific and unbiased study (having something to do with the No More Trayvon Martins Campain and issued by the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement).
To intelligently compare directly related statistics is hardly an irrelevant exercise. Everybody knows the fact of the matter when it comes to who is doing the best job of killing black people in America today. The absurd lengths people will go to to avoid directly confronting this truth is astounding.
In conclusion, I find myself left with no choice but to formally declare the claim of ignoratio elenchi to be El Derilicti Clenchus Maximus Sabado Gigante Stratavarious Hellbentio Absurdomania Kajagoogoo. That is all.
Mea culpa! Mens sano in corpore sano. Etc., etc.
Forgive me if I mistakenly assumed that Your Attorney’s question was meant as a counterpoint to Chet’s post. I agree that the issue of violence within the African American community has many factors. And if there are legitimate concerns about the methodology of the posted study or its findings, that’s fine. However, I find the rhetorical (I assume it’s rhetorical) question a bit odd.
Let’s say that the 2013 Honda Civic has a design flaw that results in the deaths of hundreds of drivers. Would you ask how many other drivers are killed as a result of their own error or bad habits?
Black on black violence is obviously a deep rooted and systemic problem. I don’t think that Chet is downplaying that fact.
p.s. I just might understand it more if Your Attorney had asked, “How many black on black violent crimes do police PREVENT?” At least that question seems more directly related to the topic at hand.
Tim’s covering the point I’d make. I don’t see Edgar’s question as connected at all. The horror is that, if the methodology isn’t terribly flawed, cops or cop-equivalents are killing a member of a traditionally discriminated-against minority of our citizens really fucking often.
That’s a problem. That’s a BIG fucking problem. That’s a BIG fucking problem nobody’s really doing anything about because it’s complex. It’s tied to crime, race, class, poverty and (yes) simple racism, among other things, and we are notoriously bad at confronting difficult, complex, nuanced problems.
The relevance of the question can be measured in several ways. Chet’s repost details a racist element to the overall police force. I do not doubt there is racism in any sector of our society, and expect there to be a great deal in law enforcement. But the question has many layers. First you could examine how many black cops kill black citizens? Are the white cops disproportionately snuffing black citizens or is it in line with the black cops pension for busting a cap. The repost I assume was written by a black person ending with a statement on why he carries. I carry, but it is not because I am afraid of cops shooting me, and in fact, I doubt I would ever challenge a cop with my piece, though I am not black and am not hunted as this post portrays. I think if you look at the other angles, that blacks are disproportionately represented in armed robberies, break ins etc. you should expect their shootings by the cops to also be higher than average. Maybe they are shot more for being black and wearing hoodies and thus the stats are shaded due to profiling which leads to more shootings? I would think that maybe a tad bit of it has to do with the crime ridden areas in which they live. Also, the black on black stats are relevant to see if in fact blacks are killing more of their own race than the cops as I doubt any of the offended above would try to argue that those shootings were race motivated. Finally I really don’t give a shit if I, a Cuban-American is thought of as racist. I am certain growing up in Pasa-get-down -dena I faced more racism than most on this post, and furthermore am about as white a Cuban you will find. So now back to the question, are police shootings racist or does the higher concentration of black crime make it seem that way?
The point of Quin’s re-blog was, I suspect, that for lots of reasons it’s more dangerous to be young and black than it is to be something else. Whatever else is going on with this stat, it’s fucking horrifying.
I don’t doubt that Edgar was exposed to more racism than the rest of us on this thread; the closest thing to color otherwise is Tim being Black (Hearted) Irish. But I’m not sure that has anything to do with Quin’s point, either.
Something is really, really, really fucked up if government actors are killing black people at this rate regardless of the crime rate and regardless of other factors. It’s unheard of in proper democracies — but, of course, we’re also unique in that crowd, and globally, for our absolutely absurd prison population. There’s a racist element in that, too.
(And I don’t think anyone’s called you racist, Edgar.)
I have consulted in great solemnity with my most trusted contacts in the upper echelons of the Juggalo family with regard to this comment thread, and they have unanimously concluded that all y’all are stone cold suckas. Word.
How many are killed by other blacks?
Ignoratio elenchi. – Not Your Attorney
Your Attorney does not appear to have drawn a conclusion, but rather asked a valid question, the answer to which I guarantee is painfully inconvenient for the creators of this rigorously scientific and unbiased study (having something to do with the No More Trayvon Martins Campain and issued by the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement).
To intelligently compare directly related statistics is hardly an irrelevant exercise. Everybody knows the fact of the matter when it comes to who is doing the best job of killing black people in America today. The absurd lengths people will go to to avoid directly confronting this truth is astounding.
In conclusion, I find myself left with no choice but to formally declare the claim of ignoratio elenchi to be El Derilicti Clenchus Maximus Sabado Gigante Stratavarious Hellbentio Absurdomania Kajagoogoo. That is all.
Mea culpa! Mens sano in corpore sano. Etc., etc.
Forgive me if I mistakenly assumed that Your Attorney’s question was meant as a counterpoint to Chet’s post. I agree that the issue of violence within the African American community has many factors. And if there are legitimate concerns about the methodology of the posted study or its findings, that’s fine. However, I find the rhetorical (I assume it’s rhetorical) question a bit odd.
Let’s say that the 2013 Honda Civic has a design flaw that results in the deaths of hundreds of drivers. Would you ask how many other drivers are killed as a result of their own error or bad habits?
Black on black violence is obviously a deep rooted and systemic problem. I don’t think that Chet is downplaying that fact.
p.s. I just might understand it more if Your Attorney had asked, “How many black on black violent crimes do police PREVENT?” At least that question seems more directly related to the topic at hand.
Tim’s covering the point I’d make. I don’t see Edgar’s question as connected at all. The horror is that, if the methodology isn’t terribly flawed, cops or cop-equivalents are killing a member of a traditionally discriminated-against minority of our citizens really fucking often.
That’s a problem. That’s a BIG fucking problem. That’s a BIG fucking problem nobody’s really doing anything about because it’s complex. It’s tied to crime, race, class, poverty and (yes) simple racism, among other things, and we are notoriously bad at confronting difficult, complex, nuanced problems.
The relevance of the question can be measured in several ways. Chet’s repost details a racist element to the overall police force. I do not doubt there is racism in any sector of our society, and expect there to be a great deal in law enforcement. But the question has many layers. First you could examine how many black cops kill black citizens? Are the white cops disproportionately snuffing black citizens or is it in line with the black cops pension for busting a cap. The repost I assume was written by a black person ending with a statement on why he carries. I carry, but it is not because I am afraid of cops shooting me, and in fact, I doubt I would ever challenge a cop with my piece, though I am not black and am not hunted as this post portrays. I think if you look at the other angles, that blacks are disproportionately represented in armed robberies, break ins etc. you should expect their shootings by the cops to also be higher than average. Maybe they are shot more for being black and wearing hoodies and thus the stats are shaded due to profiling which leads to more shootings? I would think that maybe a tad bit of it has to do with the crime ridden areas in which they live. Also, the black on black stats are relevant to see if in fact blacks are killing more of their own race than the cops as I doubt any of the offended above would try to argue that those shootings were race motivated. Finally I really don’t give a shit if I, a Cuban-American is thought of as racist. I am certain growing up in Pasa-get-down -dena I faced more racism than most on this post, and furthermore am about as white a Cuban you will find. So now back to the question, are police shootings racist or does the higher concentration of black crime make it seem that way?
The point of Quin’s re-blog was, I suspect, that for lots of reasons it’s more dangerous to be young and black than it is to be something else. Whatever else is going on with this stat, it’s fucking horrifying.
I don’t doubt that Edgar was exposed to more racism than the rest of us on this thread; the closest thing to color otherwise is Tim being Black (Hearted) Irish. But I’m not sure that has anything to do with Quin’s point, either.
Something is really, really, really fucked up if government actors are killing black people at this rate regardless of the crime rate and regardless of other factors. It’s unheard of in proper democracies — but, of course, we’re also unique in that crowd, and globally, for our absolutely absurd prison population. There’s a racist element in that, too.
(And I don’t think anyone’s called you racist, Edgar.)
I have consulted in great solemnity with my most trusted contacts in the upper echelons of the Juggalo family with regard to this comment thread, and they have unanimously concluded that all y’all are stone cold suckas. Word.
Solemnity. How does that work?